The Cathedral of Attnam ()
-   Tips, Tricks, and Secrets (/forums/3/Tips_Tricks_and_Secrets)
-   -   My handbook on training. Discuss? (/topics/699/My_handbook_on_training_Discuss)

Alveradok

 Aug 24, 2009, 1:25 am
So, today I thought I\'d do it - upload the \'handbook\' I have been writing lately, revealing some cool ways to train characters. I hope that later it can involve into something the size and magnitude of Andy Williams\' ADOM Guide!

I figured out I wouldn\'t find no time to polish it any good, so I just took the text I already had and .ODTed, then .PDFed it.

I wrote it having several moodswings, so one of the known issues is that it really clear if it\'s meant to be funny or not, suited for everyone or hardcore IVANers only, that it may have inconsistences or linkings to non-existent text. I checked it a couple of times, and corrected some stuff already.

However, I could use a little syntax, vocabulary and typewriting assistance, so discuss everything that feels shitty (or that it could just be improved). This is the first \'edition\', with no screenshots or extra frames and jokes I planned, but perhaps it\'s enough to begin with. It is in .pdf and has a silly layout because I wanted at least the first thing to be reminescent of a booklet

P.S. Thanks go to all the great peeps from the forum, the old forum and the ancient forums, and of course the IRC channel, for inspiring me to contribute. And contributing themselves! Think You invented something presented here? Ask me for credit!

Cheers!

kylewalsh123

 Aug 24, 2009, 2:14 am
I thought it was pretty cool and unique way to train a character, though one thing I want to mention is that you can kick the banana\'s off of the pedestal before the ostriches grab them for a free food source in new attnam. Someone else posted it on the forum, I don\'t remember who, but it\'s really helpful for sci talking there, or training AGI like you\'re saying.

chaostrom

 Aug 24, 2009, 4:55 am
You\'ve always spoken of your own method of training, and at last you make it public knowledge. Let\'s take a look, eh.

Well, first off, you can save gold by getting free bananas in Attnam as mentioned above, so you can train AGI longer at the start if you wish to without wasting gold. Just make sure you take your boots off while doing that though.

Under \"Further DEX Training\", when you\'re talking about backing into a dead end and fighting a plant, drop your stuff and it doesn\'t matter if you teleport away because the plant will block access? Incorrect. The items will all teleport too. Pick \'em up then teleport. Unless it\'s stuff monsters don\'t touch like wands, traps, chests, etc.

All in all I quite liked it

capristo

 Aug 24, 2009, 7:48 am
i haven\'t read through it all yet but nice work! i think i\'ll sticky this

4zb4

 Aug 24, 2009, 11:13 am
Did somebody a few posts up not remember me?!

Oh well. I can\'t look at the guide right now because i\'m browsing on a psp, but i\'ll have a look later.

chaostrom

 Aug 24, 2009, 2:34 pm
How is the new guy supposed to remember you?

Alveradok

 Aug 24, 2009, 5:07 pm
[quote=\"chaostrom\";12260]
Under \"Further DEX Training\", when you\'re talking about backing into a dead end and fighting a plant, drop your stuff and it doesn\'t matter if you teleport away because the plant will block access? Incorrect. The items will all teleport too. Pick \'em up then teleport. Unless it\'s stuff monsters don\'t touch like wands, traps, chests, etc.


Well I didn\'t mention the \'danger\' of dropping stuff and then zapping a wand of teleport in the \'.\' direction because I seem to have forgotten mentioning that I drop it at the stairs (most often on UT2), which seems to have made me forget this issue; Kudos to You then, Chao.

The banana trick is cool, I tried it. I am sure to mention it, later, along with that cheap as free library vandalism trick.

Let\'s generate content, go on, go on! It\'s more amusing than a wiki, to me.


Quote


haven\'t read through it all yet but nice work! i think i\'ll sticky this

Owww shush! Thanks!

Oh, and please - tell me if You managed to get the 20 Agi!

Lordmushroom

 Aug 24, 2009, 7:42 pm
Well, after i finished UT 1 i had around 20-21 agi, but kamikaze dwarves are spawning like crazy
I guess i just have to find a fire res cloak to begin with hehe.

Edit: Oh and i love it

4zb4

 Aug 25, 2009, 10:54 am
Chao, he did say he saw somebody post the banana trick before. IIRC, I posted that. So therefore he could of remembered me. Credit to where it is due, and all that...

...yes I am aware that I am nitpicking

chaostrom

 Aug 25, 2009, 11:12 am
My point was that as he\'s new, a person is a person and may as well be any other person. He doesn\'t know us yet.

And yes, I too am nitpicking

Alveradok

 Aug 25, 2009, 1:23 pm
Don\'t worry, everyone will get credits for any credible efforts. After all I want the thing to be cool. After all, I love the dead before they\'re cool.

kylewalsh123

 Aug 25, 2009, 4:29 pm
[quote=\"4zb4\";12306]Chao, he did say he saw somebody post the banana trick before. IIRC, I posted that. So therefore he could of remembered me. Credit to where it is due, and all that...

...yes I am aware that I am nitpicking



I would\'ve said your username if I remembered what it was, but I didn\'t, so I just said someone posted it earlier. I am also too lazy to look it up, but I knew you\'d eventually find the thread and see it, haha.

Cerumen

 Aug 26, 2009, 4:58 pm

Quote


The banana trick is cool, I tried it. I am sure to mention it, later, along with that cheap as free library vandalism trick.



I\'m just playing around with that A great upside to kicking bananas and then eating them on spot is the pile of peels that may kill off the tourists for extra food. Yum yum, head of a child tourist

Lordmushroom

 Aug 27, 2009, 2:20 pm
Hehehe, I always put them at Huang Ming Pong place... and I always end up stepping on them and killing myself.

Cerumen

 Aug 28, 2009, 4:32 pm
They\'re a good way of getting a book of Silva from killing the elder. Better than going to UT4 anyway...

Lordmushroom

 Aug 29, 2009, 9:50 am
yeah except that you have to step on them to get the book... or just w8 for them to spoil ^^

Cerumen

 Aug 31, 2009, 1:11 am
Actually, you can just kick it out.

If Steven Spielberg ever makes an IVAN movie, I hope he includes the scene where the protagonist runs around the village, dropping banana peels in front of the elder, in an attempt to get him killed to steal his book.

As for your strategy guide - never tried the magic with the troll hide cloak, but does it really work... and how does it prevent agility from dropping? Fighting/blocking doesn\'t really increase agility, does it?

Lordmushroom

 Aug 31, 2009, 3:04 pm
Ah, stupid me.

Hahahaha, if there ever gonna be a movie about IVAN, that\'s bound to happen, just as well as using banana peels as weapons against zombies.
Zombie invasion tactics ftw...
And the troll hide cloak trick works perfect, and by dodging you still keep your agility, I think it says in the guide.

Alveradok

 Sep 1, 2009, 11:19 am
[quote=\"Cerumen\";12459]They\'re a good way of getting a book of Silva from killing the elder. Better than going to UT4 anyway...



Holy darn, that\'s true. I always try to keep him for sci-talk, but this IS a guaranteed way to say \"gtfo jenny\". Good job/how come I didn\'t think of it/will be in the nearest update . Kiwi!

Also, as Lordmushroom notes, agility doesn\'t drop because we at Failbert Inc. utilize the carnivorous plants\' unique failiness in both not missing and not not damaging to make the training safe & efficient. We do care for our customer\'s Agi.

Ernomouse

 Sep 2, 2009, 7:25 am
I read the guide... And I have to say I like your style! When I have the time, I\'ll have to try this way of playing IVAN.

brudswick

 May 2, 2010, 2:08 am
what should I wish for when I get a genie? is it worth adding him to my party instead?

BDR

 May 2, 2010, 4:36 am
Wishes are usually best spent. If you\'re like me and find beating the sumo properly to be not worth the time, wish for a belt of levitation. If you\'re not, you may wish to have a scroll of change material, or a wand of cloning. Both of those are powerful items.

Azhael

 May 2, 2010, 10:20 pm
I usually wish for Mjolak if at the very beggining of the game. In advanced games it depends on your needs/situation, but usually an amulet of life saving is a good option. I find wands of cloning/scrolls of change material in almost every game, so I wouldn\'t spend a wish on that unless you have explored all the gloomy cave and you haven\'t find anyone.

About the guide is quite good. I tried this strategy in my last few games, but the problem with this is that you raise your danger level too early in the game, resulting in named baddies spawning early. I had that problem in my last games and although I had 40 dex and str I got killed by the spider silk golem because my equipment wasn\'t that good. Normally I get to explore at least to the lvl where Ivan is found before the invisible golem, Ur Khan or Golgor Dhan appear, whereas training my stats early will make them spawn before the zombie level. In my last game I got killed in one blow by Golgor Dhan in the zombie level although he was missing an arm and a leg due to my constant zapping of wands of striking.. It really bothered me to die like that.

Alveradok

 May 2, 2010, 11:08 pm
Happy to hear all of that, Azhael . It surely will help mark a plan of optimal stat values!

Azhael

 May 3, 2010, 12:48 am
Yeah your guide is nice, I really congratulate you on discovering this method! Banana peels train your dex lightning fast, I really liked that.

Also I noticed that you become more chaotic when using them because they are whips, have to be aware of that too.

chaostrom

 May 3, 2010, 1:54 am
Azhael, you might want to double check that. I have never noticed whip-usage resulting in alignment changes, and I\'ve just done a quick test in WM. No change.

capristo

 May 3, 2010, 4:33 am
Life saving is worthless in my opinion - 1/2 of the time you\'re decapitated, and even if you are resurrected, you have no equipment and are weak.

BDR

 May 3, 2010, 6:02 am
Amulets of ESP are much handier.

Alveradok

 May 3, 2010, 10:33 am
Fortunately, eating enough floating eyes eventually will give ESP, so there always can be a free slot for an AoLS.

Azhael

 May 4, 2010, 5:49 am
I always keep floating eye corpses in the same level which I try to avoid so they don\'t rot, slowed if possible for the same purpouse... Then eat them all at once and gain perma esp. You need no more than 3 if you eat them one after the other, and eventually you will find 3 floating eyes in your game, so if you do this you won\'t need an amulet of esp later on. Perma telecontrol is much easier because the blink dogs can call another of its kin (or something like that) so you have to wait until there are three to kill them all

About the AoLS, I don\'t got beheaded that much, in fact it is rare for me. The only drawback of the AoLS (besides not working when beheaded) is that it raises the danger level pretty much so you may find Sherarax too soon... (when it\'s not to soon to find her? )

About whips making you chaotic I think I read that a long time ago. I did notice in a recent game that using the banana peels got me more chaotic but can\'t tell for sure.

Hikalian

 Jul 27, 2010, 4:59 am
Apologies in advance if I\'m going to get harangued at for posting on this.. semi-old thread. But I thought I\'d put my own input on the whips/chaotic matter. I\'ve done.. probably one thing that\'s gave the message of being an evil deed, but have been using two whips since the second floor of UT, and have ended up as \'Mildly Chaotic\', just thought I\'d share this with you guys and see if anyone else can build on the matter.

Edit: My input on the guide so far: If you\'re careful about it and manage to get lucky with your equipment, the run goes quite smoothly, working my way through GC with ease as we speak. Nice work on this, Al.

capristo

 Jul 27, 2010, 5:36 am
Well, first welcome Hikalian, since I don\'t think that\'s been said yet. And we take things pretty easy here, nobody minds if you resurrect old threads. In fact I prefer that to reposting the same topics over and over.

Repulsion

 Aug 3, 2010, 11:43 pm
Eh, why can I not open up the PDF anymore?

BDR

 Aug 5, 2010, 4:38 am
Opens fine for me, and I\'ve not done so until you said something.

derpaherp

 Jan 6, 2011, 8:55 am
Is this outdated, or just doesn\'t work in 0.50? I can\'t seem to hit a single damn thing with the banana peels and usually results in my death.

Eagle V

 Jan 6, 2011, 10:07 am
Neither. It was written for 0.50. I don\'t know the book by heart, but if you have trouble following it, maybe Alveradok can help? Also, welcome to the forums!

4zb4

 Jan 6, 2011, 10:09 am
The banana peel problem is probably due to being generated a bad character. Plus it\'s rather hard to stay alive whilst doing so anyway.

derpaherp

 Jan 6, 2011, 10:10 am
Oh, I\'m following it. The problem lies in using the banana peels as weapons as he suggests. They spoil completely extremely quickly and he claims they\'re accurate whereas I\'ve died because they barely ever hit. And if they hit, they never hit hard enough to be as much of a force to be reckoned with as he claims!

I\'m not saying he\'s lying or anything, I\'m just curious if I\'m doing something wrong with them.

4zb4

 Jan 6, 2011, 10:16 am
Are you fighting hedgehogs by any chance? Kobolds should be easy enough. Carnivorous plants are good too.

Ernomouse

 Jan 6, 2011, 10:25 am
I haven\'t had any problems... Monitor your health at all times, and get out of there if things starts to look bad for you.

4zb4

 Jan 6, 2011, 10:30 am
This reminds me that I still have a half-baked \"Cheating Bastard\'s Guide to LIVAN\" lying around somewhere.

derpaherp

 Jan 6, 2011, 11:59 am
I\'m not going to deny that I usually remake the character if his stats are sub-par. And yes, I\'m fighting hedgehogs - but aren\'t the banana peels supposed to work as whips and I won\'t take arm damage from attacking them?

It\'s not like I\'m TERRIBAD, it\'s just that I\'m so unlucky sometimes. Room full of magic mushrooms, something walks in and comes out as a freakin\' crystal golem or sdmething. I know I got my rear whooped in so many different ways.

Eagle V

 Jan 6, 2011, 12:23 pm
[quote=\"derpaherp\";17768]I know I got my rear whooped in so many different ways.



That\'s Ivan for you .

Don\'t think that you know how to play too quickly. It took me years and I\'m still mostly stumbling around without any real strategies. Maybe because I\'m too stubborn to learn them, but anyway. The most important thing is to be patient. Don\'t fight if you have a 90% chance of winning, because that\'ll mean you\'ll be dead before your 10th fight most of the time. Fight if you\'re certain to win, run if you\'re not. And if you don\'t know what to do, think. Don\'t just do something. That\'s what I do wrong most of the time. Can\'t really give you more advice than that.

4zb4

 Jan 6, 2011, 8:23 pm
[quote=\"derpaherp\";17768]And yes, I\'m fighting hedgehogs - but aren\'t the banana peels supposed to work as whips and I won\'t take arm damage from attacking them?



Yes, but the point is that hedgehogs are small which makes them hard to hit since you\'re using banana peels instead of an actual whip which would usually be extremely accurate. Also they\'ve got quite a large reputation for ending adventures early around these parts.

cowofdoom78963

 Jan 6, 2011, 11:15 pm
After reading this thread Im never wearing another amulet of life saving again! Sounds more like an amulet of life risking to me! Besides, the head being decapitated thing is also a pain.

BDR

 Jan 7, 2011, 12:16 am
You might want to have at least one around for certain edge circumstances (Izzy\'s winning game was saved from starvation by two amulets of lifesaving, for example) but yeah, for general combat purposes an amulet of ESP is far handier to wear.

capristo

 Jan 7, 2011, 2:44 am
Wow, for some reason I never considered AOLS\'s value for saving you from starvation. Are you no longer hungry when you are resurrected?

chaostrom

 Jan 7, 2011, 4:09 am
Yup. When you die, you lose all status effects. Your body is restored to a \"default\" state.

cowofdoom78963

 Jan 7, 2011, 5:22 am
Does wearing it effect the difficulty or just holding it in your inventroy?

4zb4

 Jan 7, 2011, 8:32 am
IIRC wearing it does, having it in your backpack doesn\'t. Same should hold true for all other equipment.

cowofdoom78963

 Jan 8, 2011, 3:13 am
So I should get naked and tear off my limbs before I enter a level for the first time for the easiest passage?

4zb4

 Jan 8, 2011, 5:41 am
Hmm no I don\'t think so. I believe the game checks your \"danger level\" (as we call it here on the forums) when it\'s choosing which monsters to spawn. It does this at regular intervals to provide an interesting assortment of possible deaths for your character.
Although if I\'m right about it not counting your equipment against you so long as you\'re not using it, your idea of a naked quadriplegic rolling down the hard stone stairs into the next dungeon level would probably lead to weaker monsters being spawned at map creation, meaning you have a small window of opportunity in which to slaughter the crap out of them and find the stairs once you\'ve gotten dressed and grown your limbs back.
However, removing your limbs on purpose is a dangerous process - Bear traps have a tendency to trap your head. Plus growing them back uses up valuable health potions/wands of resurrection/prayers which could all potentially be life saving later.
Oh, and you could be attacked as soon as your rolling torso hits the dirt on the next dungeon floor.

cowofdoom78963

 Jan 8, 2011, 6:12 am
I guess taking off limbs would be dumb...

In any case it would probably be a good idea to take off your armor when you go down a level. Especially for levels with special monsters like the enner beast.

4zb4

 Jan 8, 2011, 7:01 am
Enner beast? Definitely not, if he screams and is close to the entrance stairs while you\'re naked, you\'ll die.
Any other monsters usually get killed by his screams anyway and aren\'t much of a problem.
Also the danger level has no effect on \"scripted\" monsters iirc unless they\'re part of the scaling that takes place after a certain point.
Would probably be useful however for avoiding mystic dark frogs being spawned. I hate mystic dark frogs.

BDR

 Jan 8, 2011, 9:14 am
I once got killed by a ruby golem on the enner level. It\'s my highest scoring game.

Azhael

 Feb 7, 2011, 10:47 pm
[quote=\"chaostrom\";17784]Yup. When you die, you lose all status effects. Your body is restored to a \"default\" state.



Not exactly, you keep any permanent states you had before dying. Happened to me in my last game, Oree killed me, AoLS saved me and lost haste and invisibility which I didn\'t have permanent, but kept ESP which I did.

Regarding AoLS, I usually take it off when entering a new level, and wear it again right after doing that. Not sure if it changes in any way.

JoKe

 Feb 8, 2011, 5:04 am
I\'ve never kept any of my status effects after being resurrected by an AoLS.


Losing perma-telecontrol in later game sucks due to the lack of blink dog spawns.